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Nov 6th
03:28 pm
Zac at 'Waitress' plus Baywatch reshoots  






^ btw, the lady between Zac & Hugh is Keala Settle who is also in The Greatest Showman (playing the Bearded Lady). She was one of the leads in Waitress until like 2 weeks ago when she finished her run to film the movie. It looks like she was back only for this day to perform and Zac & Hugh took the opportunity to visit.

















src

More Baywatch



Brody's back. Halloween pickups. #Baywatch #TeamNoSleep


pics

Change of plans, apparently whoever took pics is zapping people with copyright so here have one picture then go see more at popsugar, cosmo, and dailyfail








Zac spoke about Zendaya in her recent Glamour article:
“She’s beautiful and rad, with a fearlessness that is impressive in someone her age. I think I still have quite a bit to learn from Zendaya.” —Zac Efron, actor

From an article about Anna's book in The Buffalo News:
Zac Efron, her co-star in the recent comedy “Mike and Dave Need Wedding Dates,” describing how he managed put rancid fake pig guts in his mouth so he could spit them out on camera. She, on the other hand, refused. Efron ended up vomiting right by her bare feet. Of course, the scene didn’t make it into the movie.
28 28 comments Comment
 
 
Bee: Zac - HSM2 BOIjeezbee on November 6th, 2016 10:41 pm (UTC)
Lol at the Waitress social media people making an HSM joke. He looks good.
queenyogaqueenyoga on November 7th, 2016 12:36 pm (UTC)
I waiting for him to see Hamilton. It is the perfect show for Zac. He missed the chance to see Lin and the original cast but he should still see it.
countessm3countessm3 on November 11th, 2016 09:17 pm (UTC)
Zac's body is copyrighted, I think, or should be. I'd totally trademark my body if I were him, with a tattoo, "TM" to make sure I could sue.

Poor Zac, always sticking things in his mouth. lol. I could go there but I won't.

On a totally unrelated note, you Californians are fuckin melodramatic as hell. That may be because you're entertainers, but really, collectively you've committed every logical fallacy in the book from the Slippery Slope argument, to Cause and Effect, to Appeal to Fear, to the False Dilemma over this election. Where is your reason? The earth is not falling into the sun because Donald Trump was voted president. You are not going to be raped as soon as you walk out the door; nobody is coming to your house to burn crosses in your yard; nobody is going to revoke your marriage license. Be reasonable, I beg of you, because I defend and argue your point to conservative members of my family, and I have brought them a long way - a long way. But if you act like sore losers and throw temper tantrums when you don't get your way, how can I ever argue your point again? I can't. So put your big gurl and big boy pants on and act like an adult. My parents survived Obama and you will survive Trump. I'm still waiting for my libertarian president.

Edited at 2016-11-11 09:18 pm (UTC)
kleth on November 12th, 2016 03:28 pm (UTC)
Sibling rivalry
Speaking of discontented Californians, I wonder of the election managed to stir up any sibling rivalry between the Efron boys. I can see Zac as a Trumpster and Dylan as a Clintonista. I just hope that in the resulting tumult Zac doesn't get his jaw broken again or punch his fist into another mantelpiece.
countessm3countessm3 on November 12th, 2016 04:04 pm (UTC)
Re: Sibling rivalry
Wow! Well I got that backwards, but it makes sense. I can see Zac wanting to protect his assets (very nice assets he has too, lol) and income and Dylan, having gone to college where all good liberals are made, being a Clintonista.

If anybody hurts my imaginary boyfriend, though, I will layeth the smacketh down on his rudipoo candyass. Even his brother. (-:

>punch his fist into another mantelpiece.

Poor little fist. (Kisses it and makes it better). (-;
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 12th, 2016 11:07 pm (UTC)
wow.

what did your parents ever have to fear from president obama? that he was black?

jesus. i absolutely have empathy for people who are afraid for their financial situation, their job security, their health, etc but the paranoid delusions that defined the right-wing complaints of president obama, saying he was secretly muslim/foreign/gay/terrorist, are not even in the same galaxy as what is happening right now.

these are real people and you, in all your privilege, ignore their fears. very real fears based on REAL WORDS out of DT's very real, very large, very loud mouth.

hispanic families who fear their families being ripped apart by deportation and a wall (yeah, seriously ask korean families how they feel about being separated from their families by a DMZ). gay families who fear their marriages (and all the legal rights those confer) will be invalidated. gay/trans people who will continue to not be protected in all states equally. muslim families who fear their religion will be banned and they will be thrown out. women who are afraid to lose their right to manage their own healthcare and lose paths to equal pay and protection from harassment. poor people who cannot afford a president who magnifies income inequality, destabilizes the economy and reduces social programs by removing banking regulation and reducing taxes on the rich (who can afford them) while increasing them on the poor (who cannot).

also the people who depend on obamacare to protect them from the for-profit madness of the healthcare system... people LIKE ME who don't get coverage through work, are lower-income and, most significantly, cannot get healthcare if obamacare is repealed because of a pre-existing condition. does that scare me? hell yes. i know exactly what it cost when i almost died. $451,087.74. i'm screwed if the GOP succeeds in DT's promise to repeal ACA and i ever get that sick again. you wanna tell me again i'm throwing a temper tantrum?

let's talk about climate change. DT will reject the paris agreement, dismantle the EPA and discourage renewable energy sources... all of which will be devastating to people EVERYWHERE through, yes, actual loss of property but also through changing environments that increase war and strife due to food shortages, deadly climate extremes, uncommon disease migration and evolution and more.

and that's a few of the policy based proposals that are problems. but you think they aren't possible so i'm SURE it will be fine.

it is irresponsibly naive of people to be so pollyanna. it can't happen here? my ass.

i generally agree with the idea that the country will soldier on, we will keep making progress even if it is often two steps forward, one step back. but for the first time in my life, and in my study of history, i feel like we've actively slid decades backwards in our regard for equality.

the funny thing is DT keeps saying things and people keep going NAH, no way. DT talks about assaulting women, women come forward and say they were assaulted. NNNNAAAH couldn't have really happened. when exactly will people start believing his threats?

admittedly we have a lot of reason to doubt his governing power because he clearly has given very little thought to real policies. he has no idea how government or the constitution works. the only thing we know for sure is his position on trade. but we know who he is bringing in to be a part of the team and they are horrifyingly bigoted actors.

i do agree with one thing that my (also naively optimistic) dad thinks. DT won't last. he'll be impeached or quit. i mean, he hates work like this. he obviously had no real intention of having to do the hard slog of being president every day for four years. plus he's on trial for fraud and raping a 13 year old so.... who knows. but pence is no better. he's a fucking monster who believes in conversion therapy and punishing women who have abortions. DT has brought into the light what the right-wing is truly about and worse, they will have all three branches of government. so if he endures or not, bad things are bound to happen.
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 12th, 2016 11:07 pm (UTC)
people keep saying we survived george w, we survived reagan, we survived whoever. but let's not forget how many people did not actually survive reagan because of his callous disregard for the AIDS epidemic. or the minorities punished by unreasonable law and order policies, such as guiliani's favorite stop and frisk or sheriff clarke's desire to squelch the first amendment and kobach's 'paper's please'.

policy MATTERS but even more than that people actually fear violence and though you claim things won't happen, they already are. so let's lets run down the actual physical based fears that women, lgbt, non-white, non-christian people, and more have because of the hatred that trump has engendered and magnified and legitimized.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/11/11/over-200-incidents-hateful-harassment-and-intimidation-election-day

Pennsylvania:








hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 12th, 2016 11:08 pm (UTC)
Colorado:






















D.C.

https://www.facebook.com/ksub2000/posts/10104907237962643

Virginia:

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/uva/students-protest-outside-uva-bov-meeting-chanting-protect-our-students/article_0ed1c8e8-a83d-11e6-971b-f71b1468b9ae.html?1478892449995

Maryland:





hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 12th, 2016 11:09 pm (UTC)
Indiana and New York:

https://www.facebook.com/mishka.zena/posts/956600834446120?match=bGVuYSB2YW4gbWFuZW4%3D




New York:

http://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/local-news/pride-flags-are-being-burned-in-rochester










Massachusetts





Oklahoma:




Florida:

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/investigation-underway-after-2-racist-signs-posted-above-water-fountains-at-first-coast-high-school/466146633

Texas:


hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 12th, 2016 11:09 pm (UTC)
California:










This whole thread from Kumail Nanjiani: https://twitter.com/kumailn/status/797470238614831104




Michigan:




I want to post all of these too but this is getting long… so go to any of these which Shaun King has been collecting and just scroll there are many more like this

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796804427403427840

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796813741459443712

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796542537255239681

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796729403338321920

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796799336793407488

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796806832920690688

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796752150827298821

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796754379370102784

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796751463619948544

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/796750646196191233

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/797089728336105472

the striking thing is how much of this is happening in really, really liberal places. austin, boulder, seattle, portland, all over california. the most hippy yuppy places. but the truth is these angry people were always there, hate festering in their hearts. they finally feel like they can let it out because of DT. so why don't we hear about it as much from the south? my theory is the hate wasn't so closeted there… so less of a pressure cooker release. also i think victims are more used to it so don't post about it. i do think this will taper but the consequences ripple on.
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 12th, 2016 11:12 pm (UTC)
the democrats aren't sore losers. despite the monumental failures of the media, the "non-partisan" fbi, the on-going voter suppression efforts of the right (for which they've been under legal watch for over 30 years), whatever the hell putin is up to, and deeply embedded misogyny, the popular vote was hillary's. an antiquated system designed to preserve slavery is responsible for this travesty of the nation's will. and sadly, thanks to said system again, black americans (and more) will face increased (hard to believe as it is) every-day bigotry and even more systemic suppression.

history has taught us to be wary of demagogues and how dangerous it is to laugh, minimize and ignore this kind of hatred. so stop being insulting to people who care deeply for equality, democracy and freedom. and stop pretending that any other presidential loss is the same thing.

and finally, if you think zac would vote for trump you are incredibly, INCREDIBLY unwilling to see who zac is beyond your own projections on to him.
countessm3countessm3 on November 13th, 2016 01:45 pm (UTC)
Donald Trump identified himself as a Democrat a few years ago and even supported Bill Clinton’s presidential campaign. Of all Republicans who were nominated, he is the least likely to revoke gay rights, women’s rights or African American rights. Know why? He’s a secularist, not a fundamentalist. He doesn’t have a moral stance on that issue. Furthermore, he’s a giant narcissist who is more concerned about himself than what people are doing in their bedrooms. He just not into you.

Liberals, just like conservatives, are both closed-minded and bigoted because they are unable and unwilling to engage the other. For instance, you immediately assumed my parents are racist because they didn’t vote for Obama and didn’t even engage the idea that under the Obama care they would be overlooked for organ transplants / heathcare because old people aren’t worth as much as young people. You also didn’t consider the idea that my dad rose from abject poverty living in a concrete house without running water and electricity and wants to hold on to what he made through hard work. You are just as bad as my parents, who think all liberals are socialists.

Sometimes I wish I was dead just because both sides represent a major problem with humanity, and as long as you both exist there will be war. And I am pretty damn tired of this bullshit. I’m a social liberal and a fiscal conservative and get screwed every election, but I don’t throw a temper-tantrum about it. And if you want to keep at it, that’s fine. If you try to overthrow Trump or assassinate him the conservatives (and probably some libertarians) will pull out their guns –they are the ones who have them, though apparently liberals do too (see Portland), which is ironic –and you will have a nice civil war. I will go ahead and shoot myself to make things easier for both of you.

PS: I'm not entitled making 487.00 every two weeks.

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:
1) A and B occur together.
2) Therefore, A is the cause of B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. I.E. Trump supporters painted nazi swastikas because of Trump, not because they were already KKK members and racists.

Nobody considers that some of these might be hoaxes, self-inflicted to give the impression of a mass Trump conspiracy.

Anecdotal Fallacy describes an event sufficiently to permit a hasty generalization about it. It may be used, for example to convince someone that the occurrence is a widespread problem.

I.E. Statistically insignificant, Trump-related incidents are being promoted by the media to give the impression of a massive, Trump conspiracy. Similarly, Trump protesters are being covered by the media to show that this, too, is a massive conspiracy (the media wants a war, see?). Truth is, most Clinton voters are not acting up, and I’ve seen some Clinton voters tell other Clinton voters on the internet to get over it.

Appeal to Fear (argumentum ad metum or argumentum in terrorem) is a fallacy in which a person attempts to create support for an idea by using deception and propaganda in an attempt to increase fear and prejudice toward a competitor. It is common in marketing and politics.

Example: If Trump wins, we will have a nuclear war! There will be a witch hunt for women, gays, and African Americans! Even legal immigrants will be deported!
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 14th, 2016 02:58 pm (UTC)
I do apologize if your parents aren't racist. I was responding to the tone of your original comment that you've been doing the good work trying to pacify your family which struck me as what I hear frequently from my southern friends who say the same about their less-liberal families which disrespect our President because of the color of his skin.

All that said, you never really answered what your parents had to fear from President Obama.

The specifics of transplants on the ACA were not developed when he ran for president (nor are those limitations unique to Obamacare) and rising from poverty doesn't explain hating him either.

So, specifically, what did they oppose or fear?

You say I didn't even engage with what alternative issues but I followed immediately with how much I empathize with fears of economics, etc. But often, as I've seen with my friends' families and with the conspiracy theories, the lowest common denominator is race. If that isn't your parents, then I repeat, my apologies.

I believe you and I are quite similar, maybe more than you think. You, like me, as a women, have surely dealt with misogyny. You, like me, as a low-income person, have dealt with the hardships that creates… hardships people like DT never ever have known. You, like me, have had family hardship because of healthcare. But also you, like me, are privileged because you are white. And yes, that does make us privileged. Does that privilege negate the other hardships? It depends on the situation.

What is deeply troubling to me though is that you keep ignoring real evidence and DT's own campaign promises. You write it all off as liberals whining which is an easy way to not take responsibility for the path we are on.

You are upset you don't get a real candidate, well do something, take action. I mean, you say we're being melodramatic by peacefully protesting hate (and don't falsely conflate the violence of anarchists with the tens of thousands protesting peacefully) but you literally just said you want to shoot yourself. Who is being melodramatic here?

I think it is fairly clear from the way I've run this lj, I love facts and am deeply hesitant to ascribe any theory without proper evidence. This is my personality type and my strength (and sometimes weakness). I want to make an informed decision so I gather and weigh evidence and I measure my response carefully, especially when I feel the evidence is not strong enough (this drives jeezbee nuts sometimes I think).

You may think a spike of 250+ hate actions post-election is not significant but I do not agree. And neither does the Southern Poverty Law Center, who says that the amount they've received since the election is equal to the number the receive in an average 5-6 month period. And as much as I despise statistics and think they can be manipulated to show what we want to see, that is not in any way normal and I cannot ignore it. Nor can I ignore these claims, just like I would not ignore a woman saying she was raped.

I do agree wholeheartedly with you that the media is full of shit and they do things for clicks. But that does not negate that these events are happening in far greater numbers, particularly in unexpected places, after the election of a man who, regardless of whether he will enact promised policies, campaigned on a platform of hate.

Absolutely I considered carefully whether these are hoaxes (so definitely not 'nobody'). In fact, I vetted these and left out the ones I knew or thought were unsubstantiated. You can bet that I believe quite a few of these are childish pranks. But pranks still cause hurt. Pranks, without swift recourse, enable other bullies and worse actions. But what are these kids supposed to think?
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 14th, 2016 03:02 pm (UTC)
Everyone is hearing the hateful words from DT's mouth. They are hearing the hateful words *and* seeing the hateful actions from Pence, Guiliani, Sheriff Clarke, Kobach. heir actions and those by the dozens of others (inspired, by their own indication often, by Trump) have already negatively impacted people of color, women, lgbt, and disabled people. Do you not care about that at all? To ignore that, to ignore the rise of right-wing hate all over the world, is illogical and is dangerous.

You can say all you want that correlation does not imply causation (I strongly disagree in this case) or that I am committing all kinds of logical fallacies (I also disagree). But fundamentally, people are being hurt and there is valid evidence of that. And you seem to care not at all about that. If that is an unfair characterization, you maybe should examine how you are stating your point because that is how you are coming across.

There is a really fantastic book called America Views the Holocaust by Robert Abzug. It looks at what Americans knew when and what their reaction was and why through primary evidence. It was such an astounding book that it really spurred a huge development in me and how I think critically, leading me to study history in grad school.

The book opens with early examples of the brutal persecution of Jewish people. In 1933, the American Jewish Committee’s The Jews in Nazi Germany detailed how acts of violence against Jewish people increased after Hitler became chancellor. One good example is from a personal letter about children at a school. Ellipses are omitted names and, to explain, Horst Wessel was a Nazi storm trooper who became a martyr after being killed in a political street fight:

“After the gym hour at the … school, the children sang the Horst Wessel song (Wessel has been declared a saint by the Nazis) and a thirteen-year-old boy shouted: 'Let’s go after the Jews!’ The children … and … were so terribly beaten up that they cried and sobbed for hours afterwards not only from physical pains but also because they were mortified that from now on they had to regard themselves as outcasts. When … protested to the teacher, the latter said: ‘Well, that’s the way it goes in life; the ones who are stronger are always right.’”

And this was just the beginning. Why we ignored the evidence is a complicated issue that Abzug tackles as well. But this fact, from a Nov. 1944 Gallup Poll, is astounding… while 76% of people believed Nazis were murdering people in concentration camps: "Only 16% believed the figure to be two million or more, and 36% were sure that those killed in such circumstances numbered under one hundred thousand." Can you imagine thinking 100,000 people had been murdered only to find out that it was really 6 million? And we had hard evidence of the grotesque brutality even before Allied troops breached the camps. But Americans ignored it, wrote it off and worse, allowed a prevailing anti-Semitic attitude to dim any passionate response. Really all the Allied countries tried to ignore it due to not knowing what to do with refugees amid economic turmoil and xenophobia. (Side note: much of this, to me, has startling parallels to the current situation with Syria.)

Obviously this book isn't analyzing how Germans reacted to the rise of fascism in their own country, but I think it is a strong case for the need to not ignore early evidence and to be pragmatically and brutally honest about what we could be facing. We had a lot of evidence of the atrocities unfolding and gaining steam. You likely will continue to think, especially after I invoked Hitler, this all is a call to fear. But maybe there is a reason people are afraid because this happened before and not because they are mad they lost. People were mad that G.W. won, but there wasn't a reaction like this because he didn't campaign on violence and hatred. So you can go on and on trying to say I'm being illogical or fallacious but I'm going to go on doing what I can on small and large levels to condemn bigotry, be empathetic with the victims, and prevent hatred from poisoning our democracy. I think all of us should do that too.
countessm3countessm3 on November 14th, 2016 05:31 pm (UTC)
Not surprisingly, Fox News also uses fear tactics. They told my parents Obama was a socialist who would take away private property and force upon them socialized medicine, meaning that my father, who has a heart arrhythmia and has undergone several conversions and three ablations would have to wait months for surgery. My brother died from a similar heart condition (he was dead 8 minutes before they brought him back to life). In the meantime, the best doctors would leave the country (since there would be a cap to their income) to make money in another country. They also told them Obama was a covert Muslim bent on converting America to Islam. It's the same stupid shit as what's happening now on the other side. It was "scare the old people shitless" so they oppose Obama. Eight years later, we are not a socialist country with exclusive socialized medicine. Big surprise.

Honestly, let me tell you about Nazi Germany. Germany wasn't the only one who hated Jews; every European hated them. Anti-Antisemitism runs through modernist literature, from Djuana Barnes' Nightwood, to H.P. Lovecraft's "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" to even my beloved Oscar Wilde's "The Picture of Dorian Gray."

Living a life of fear is not worth living, esp living a life of fear unnecessarily. Protest if it makes you feel better, but don't perpetuate the fear. It actually hurts people, just like Fox news hurts old people.
cindiest on November 16th, 2016 07:51 am (UTC)
you're comparing Fox New spin with DT's actual words and now his actions, vis à vis appointments to his cabinet. Not the same. Not at all.

DT reached out the poor and middle class whites (you) by condemning the "other" whether the other was from a foreign land or right here at home. How dare you tell "others" they're being melodramatic. Children are afraid of this man. Children I know. Not fake children who only exist in the media spin. They're afraid they will be torn from their homes, or torn away from their parents or extended family. These fears exist because of the promises DT made that he will "round people up." Those are HIS words. I am Jewish. How dare you tell me I'm being melodramatic when I hear those words. Round em up and get them out of here. And if you respond again trying to say people are melodramatic, you're the one who isn't listening. I have empathy for the police officers who voted for Obama in '08 but then Romney in '12 and DT in '16. I am not mad at them. I get it. They have real fears, not based on news cycles but their experiences. I feel the same about the people in the Rust Belt. The white (former) middle class provider who is being left behind by globalization and never more than condescended to by the left (me). I get it. I would easily sit down and hear what they have to say. My reaction would be to embrace them. My problem is with people who will minimize and ignore the very real plight of others. If there's one thing a person can care about other than their immediate relationships it should be who is leading the world. It ain't no joke. And it's not whining. It's real af. People die. People live. People survive. People ache. They get down on their knees to pray to a symbol like the cross. This is being human. We're not whining about a haircut. We're talking about the leader of the free world. And if you think it doesn't matter who is running our country, which is essentially what you're saying whether you mean to or not. You are flatly wrong.

countessm3countessm3 on November 16th, 2016 04:20 pm (UTC)
My son is black and he is not worried. His father, also black, is not worried.

Every day I teach African American students from impoverished backgrounds how to write so they can be successful in the world. I also tutor them in the Writing Center (I even helped one win a scholarship to Spain out of hundreds of people.) What the fuck are you doing other than walking up and down the goddamn street? If you want to make a difference, shut the fuck up and do something. Volunteer time to work with children who are victims of violence. Offer to be a big brother or big sister to someone. But for Christ’s sake, don’t criticize me when I’m the one actively making a difference.

You are part of the massive hysteria running amok now. Trump is president but he does not have absolute power. There are checks and balances in our government. Furthermore, he only wants to get rid of illegal aliens who are stealing jobs from poor Americans – not to export everybody. I’m not even a Trump supporter but I’m not so blind as to buy the whole leftist platform (or the whole right platform either). I think for myself, and make my decisions using reason, not my emotions. Reason tells me that the universe is not going to end because Trump is president. Furthermore, the man is only taking a dollar salary. What president before him has offered to do that? He is not the manifestation of Satan.

Even Obama agreed with him that there should be term limits on senators and that there needs to be a reasonable plan to deal with immigration policy.
Here is a link to his 100 day plan, the first 5 or 6 the *democrats* have been arguing for:
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days
cindiest on November 16th, 2016 05:32 pm (UTC)
You yourself are saying people are scared-- offering examples of PoCs not scared, does not prove no one else should be-- talk about fallacy. Just because people you know personally aren't scared doesn't mean no one else should be. Illegal immigrants have legal US citizens for children--and grandchildren, and nieces and nephews, and sisters and brothers and cousins.

Even people around the world with whom we do not share media outlets, are concerned about DT, And they have a totally different set of legitimate concerns.

Further, one person in power pushing an agenda can make change-- No one is saying there aren't checks and balances, but the President and this President's soon to be appointed Supreme Court Justice have power to create change. Obama changed a lot even in the face of an historically intransigent congress. The changes can be for the better or worse,

Here's the thing. You are saying we are wrong. We are saying you are wrong for telling us we are wrong. I'm not saying terrible things are bound to happen. I'm saying I'm concerned they might based on a whole lot of facts that legitimize my fear. Each day that passes I grow calmer and am able to process this with a more hopeful outlook. I am an optimist. I absolutely give DT a chance-- I have no choice bit to give him a chance. And I have been comforted by his recent tone, though weary of it.

The only wrong here is in your attitude towards those whose lives will be affected by this change negatively. Give them a break and some compassion. Don't call them whiners. Hold their hands and tell them how you see things as brighter than they do. See if you can take them with you. But first listen to them and lean a little something about the individual story.

I won't respond to you again if you continue to call people and me hysterical and whiners, but feel to say as much as you wish to me.
cindiest on November 16th, 2016 06:04 pm (UTC)
To be a clear, I will read your response if you reply to my last comment. I won't reply if we continue to each say the same things. You get the last word since It was your comment that sparked this.

I also want to let you know the only reason I'm engaging at all is because we share this safe space. I would not respond to some rando
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 17th, 2016 06:07 am (UTC)
Actually what's surprising about the salary issue is that he's not doing what Hoover and JFK did which is donate it to charities… surprising since DT loves to donate other people's money in his own name. Also, I'd happily pay DT his presidential salary if he'd pay his fair share of taxes, millions he's never apparently paid.

IA that DT will not really do some of the things he is saying he will do. And obviously not everything Trump argues for is something that Democrats will hate. And I kind of agree with you that I actually think he has no real political position except doing things to serve his own greed and ego. He's made that abundantly clear in his life up to this point.

It is clear though from the transition actions already underway that he has no idea how to govern and that mixed with his narcissism allows a dangerous moral vacuum. The risk of this vacuum seems to be confirmed by him installing people who are actively anti-Other who will govern in his place. And even if Trump's own threats weren't valid enough reason to be afraid (personally I think it is safest to take such threats seriously), the people he's bringing in are scary.

I think spike in hate crimes is well-documented and not full of hoaxes. The stats the FBI released yesterday certainly indicate the trend was already upward (6.8% increase in 2015, 67% increase towards Muslims). Why did it increase last year? My guess Black Lives Matter and terrorism fears. Those are fears DT exploited and so it is a logical conclusion and supported by evidence that post-DT win, the violence has spiked. As I said originally, I do think it will taper. But, as I gave evidence, this is also what happened prior to the Holocaust. I bet I could find you some good primary source evidence of the same from my friend who wrote a book on Japanese internment. So I think it is not unreasonable or illogical or whiny to heed this historical warning.

And here's the other thing I haven't said yet. The people who govern in his place, like Pence, Bannon, etc… people who have espoused anti-Otherisms of all types. What laws they enact may eventually be deemed constitutionally illegally, but in the time it takes the Supreme Court to decide that outcome, thousands of lives will be devastated.

People keep saying Democrats should be compassionate to the fears of poor white people. I agree with that because I think caring about each other is the only way forward. But I also think that poor white people need to be compassionate to the fears of all the people DT shat on during his campaign. You are mad at your parents for believing all the lies that Fox News feeds but are happily ignoring DT's words, his actions, the actions of the people surrounding him and the very real evidence of hatred from people all over the country, as well as personal confessions of fear that should at least draw compassion not a "fuck you".

hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 17th, 2016 06:13 am (UTC)
Fear exists on a reality spectrum from paranoia and conspiracy to logical and fact-based. And, yes, the media takes advantage of that in every possible way. Grotesquely, they ignore or magnify the reality as it serves their greed, so it is up to us to examine carefully any information they give us and measure it against primary sources and actions. And there is truth to be found amongst the lies. Personally, I don't think I live a life of fear but I do try to be realistic and logical. And I try to be compassionate, not always successfully as I am far from a perfect human being.

All of the volunteer options you suggest matter a lot. But standing up in solidarity for the marginalized and against hatred and bigotry, even just by peaceful protests, does matter. Whatever we think of DT, equality was not perfect in this country even before his campaign and so we still have to fight for that no matter what. Raising a voice up, a people up is the heart of democracy and I want to believe that those in Congress will feel and hear that. I see lots of people trying to make their voices heard through marches through calling reps and other ways. It is great work. And, even if nothing bad happens, we are speaking up for a cause we should all believe, that of equality and democracy.

The best work of all is loving each other and knowing we are all here hoping for the same things. And if we had more of that and less greed and ego, then maybe we wouldn't find ourselves in such a quandary.

FYI, at this point, I am choosing to freeze the thread. I feel like we've exhausted the debate and we are just going around in circles. You are (or anyone is) welcome to message me if you want to debate further.
cindiest on November 16th, 2016 07:22 am (UTC)
PREECH! You are 100% correct in everything you said. I've been mugged twice in my life and my boyfriend had a gun to his back right next me and I am telling you, when I woke up on Nov 9th (after about three hours of interrupted sleep) I was gripped by MORTAL fear as a woman, a Jew and an American.

As for Zac, again I agree with every word. I am stunned by how many Trump supporters are his fans. I have had to unlike several pictures, because I just cannot. That pic where he's circled in the red heart is one of them. I am glad that Zac is such a loving and humble and encouraging and inspirational force that he transcends demographics, but he is my ultimate happy and it can be difficult to see rn.

FYI to anyone who doubts Z's stance, there are many ways I could effectively argue that Zac is not a DT supporter, but I'll just do it this way: Zac called Trump a dick on Conan, during N2 promo. When he said this is American we should be able to draw dicks however we want, Seth said (JOKINGLY) that's why I'm voting for Trump. Zac said, yeah, you should be able to vote for them [dicks] and draw them.

More Zac-ishly related stuff: after the Access Hollywood tape was leaked, some dude Tweeted that if Zac Efron was caught saying that every woman would swoon. Someone responded, sure but Z's not running for president. I responded saying his fans would be shocked and disgusted and so disappointed. I then shared a quote (the one where Z said you don't know how beautiful a woman is until you talk to her). I might have been wrong though. Maybe a lot of his fans would swoon. Which is very disappointing to me.
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 12th, 2016 11:13 pm (UTC)
p.s. as a (former) new mexican who had him as governor, gary johnson is not so much of a buffoon as he seems but his policy positions are deeply troubling. among the many, it is incredibly disturbing to me that as a governor who saw his state burn at the hands of the onset of climate change, he doesn't believe we should do anything to fix it. seriously, he was commended for his hands-on response to the massive fire that destroyed 48k acres and a swath of homes where i grew up (an area that suffered another disastrous fire of 150k+ acres ten years later). this is a state that had over seventy large wildfires in 20 years burning up an area that was roughly the size of new jersey. and he doesn't think he has a responsibility to prevent climate change? this is one of the greatest national security issues of our times. i cannot vote for a president who does not believe we should do everything in our power to prevent this catastrophe that will kill and ruin the lives of millions.

p.p.s.


















hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on November 13th, 2016 05:07 am (UTC)
i'm gonna keep on adding these here.







the ripples around the world...




countessm3countessm3 on November 13th, 2016 02:00 pm (UTC)
By the way, that cinder block house wasn't paid for. It was because after my grandad's death when my father was 11 (due to asthma with alcoholism/opium addiction), my grandmother when around the community, pleading she had 4 kids to feed and nowhere to live. People in the community/church donated supplies and the men built her a house.
Aliciapop86 on November 13th, 2016 12:06 am (UTC)
Thank you, Cady.
kleth on November 13th, 2016 07:48 pm (UTC)
Who, me?
Yikes! Our esteemed hostess sure likes to interpret other people's random comments into major controversies.

All I did was suggest that the Efron boys might have backed different candidates in the election. Doesn't matter which, Zac could have been a Clintonista and Dylan a Trumpster.

Nor am I one of those aweful Trumpsters myself. I voted for Obama twice and for Clinton in this general election. I did vote for Trump in the Indiana primary (which he was going to win anyway), but I wanted to help eliminate Ted Cruz (which I did). I always had a natural dislike for Cruz and wanted him off the ballot.

I'm also glad that Governor Pence got booted upstairs. I did not appreciate the way he was protecting my religious liberties by promoting discrimination against gays and other minorities in public accommodations. Good riddance.
countessm3countessm3 on November 14th, 2016 06:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Who, me?
>Ted Cruz

Now there's a dude who is truly frightening. Trump is full of shizzle, but if Cruz had won, the first thing he'd probably do is renounce gay marriage.