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Aug 5th
11:52 pm
OK, essay  
So here's the deal. I had no interest in posting any pictures of this last trip because I find nothing about it enjoyable. And it takes a lot to ruin shirtless Zac…. :(

I did save them. In a folder called 'Fucking Ibiza' (sorry Spain). And maybe some day, when things are more assured, I'll look at them and find something enjoyable in them.

I guess I could've just posted them with more gifs of staring, side-eyeing, eye-rolling or throwing up in my mouth… I have plenty of those between the ones I made when I first found out and the ones I made ever since he started hanging out with questionable people again.

But in reality, judgment, anger and disappointment achieve nothing. Not saying people shouldn't feel that way sometimes but overall they get me nowhere and are probably the worst responses for him… hypothetically speaking since it's not like he'll see this. But also anger in particular is a defensive shield to hide the fact that really, I'm just super anxious. Like, I don't know what's happening exactly, few people do. But these are questionable people plus that is a seriously questionable environment which adds up to serious downer for me. I am worried he's given up and given in and in the darkest moments, I'm scared he'll die, tbqh. So really if I were to gif my feelings, these might be most apropos:





(I have lots of these types of gifs too.)

These aren't new concerns, ever since I knew he was first using, I worried. I've said that before I'm sure. Many people might argue I don't really deserve to have such strong concern since I am a complete stranger. And trust me I've distanced myself because I've realized it isn't healthy to be too engaged in some stranger's life. But I've spent a lot of time sticking up for him as an actor and as a person and I did it because I saw not perfection or a hot bod but something genuine in him. And I've learned a lot about him, more than a stranger probably deserves, enough to fill a book. Most of what I know about him says he's a good dude, despite his faults. And let's be real here, if he were a shithead, he would've been ditched by Hollywood long ago and, even more noticeably, media would play his story a totally different way.

So it was nice seeing him get help and it did relieve the worry a bit. And despite clearly erroneous information that haters (and TMZ and Lainey Gossip) spread, he really did try and does care. We know his Dad and family are serious about it. If for no other reason, you know that means he'll try. But people, addicts especially, do stupid shit and it doesn't matter how long they've been sober, addiction is always in the background. And while it is tempting to say he knows what he is doing and he knows how to pick good friends… knowing and doing are two totally different things. He wouldn't be in this mess in the first place if he made all great choices. The friends thing is super complex, how can it not be for someone so famous. But how he goes back to friends who use him to pay their bar tabs and get instagram <3s, I do not know. Like obviously these people care about him… to a point. And yet they definitely put their needs and wants above his, otherwise they'd do more to enable healthy behavior in him.

What drives me nuts is haters will be salivating over this. There are many people who love it when anyone famous fails but worse, I know there are a few specifically Zac haters who would love nothing more than if he died. Which is pretty fucking sick.

Haters insist we are naïve, we're dumb and we've been duped. It is true that I don't know everything that happens and also it is true that I've grown and learned a lot doing this, but I'm not naïve or dumb or duped. I'm educated as a historian, that's half of my background. You spend a lot of time learning the pitfalls of having passion for a topic and of how to read between the lines and parse the metaphorical tea leaves about peoples' lives before you can write a defensible thesis. And I can tell you, without a doubt, haters are far more blinded by their hatred than I am by my affection and they are far less honest about what they do and do not know.

Anyway… I could go on and on (seriously, I could write a book). But let me just end it by saying for now, I'm counting down the days till the DJ movie starts. (See forthcoming post.)

p.s. Since I saw it come up in comments… in general I don't care if comments go a little off topic from posts. My only hard rules on here are no drama, no personal attacks… the latter is usually easy enough, the former used to be a lot easier when there was less drama in Zac's life, lol. But overall I understand the need for people to discuss things and I also understand how other people don't want to see certain discussions. I'm not sure how to make both sides happy except I'll try to make posts like this faster in the future so there is an on topic place to talk. Trouble is, I'm a slow poke when I write about serious stuff so perhaps a good compromise might be… if you want to post something kind of off topic and less pleasant, use spoiler tags. To do spoiler tags, straight from the lj faq: "Type <lj-spoiler title="Link to spoiler"> before the text you want to hide, replacing "Link to spoiler" with the word or phrase the viewer will click to see the hidden text. If you want to start showing text again, type </lj-spoiler> after the last of the text you want hidden."
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The Writers Denmusewriter on August 6th, 2014 05:22 am (UTC)
"I'm scared he'll die, tbqh.."

You hit the nail right on the head, Cady. I try not to let myself go there but it's something that has been in the back of mind ever since Cory died. Back when we knew he was using but news of his rehab hadn't broken. I know the situations can't be compared but I almost can't help it. I just hope we never have the opportunity to group them in the same category as stars who left us too soon...

Unfortunately, my Social Work schooling has taught me, quite frankly, that addiction is a bitch. I truly do believe he is trying, or at least he was. At least he has his family in his corner and I hope that helps him in some way. He strikes me as a people pleaser, though, and Mo, Michelle, and Gianluca seem to prey on that like a bunch of rabid wolves. It sickens me to be honest and I could write a novel on my disdain for them but that won't do anyone any good.

Thank you for providing a place for fans to talk and gather and for always putting everything into such eloquent words.
annabelle83 on August 6th, 2014 09:26 am (UTC)
To be honest, I don't understand why people are so upset about him going to Ibiza. I think Ibiza is just as toxic as LA. There's no safe place for a young actor working in Hollywood. I can't say I hated him being in Ibiza because I was happy to see pictures of him hanging out with Jared Leto and Jessica Chastain.

I'm really looking forward to his new DJ movie. Some people might be worried that the movie is about EDM and partying, but it's understandable Zac is doing that movie especially after the huge success of Neighbors. I'm sure he's recently got offered a lot of movies based on partying and debauchery. He really can't escape from partying scenes, both professionally and personally.

Edited at 2014-08-06 09:54 am (UTC)
❤️Zefron1087 on August 6th, 2014 11:19 am (UTC)
Please don't take this reply as an offensive way. Ibiza caused way more damaged than LA. Ibiza is known for a place full of drugs and alcohols. And Zac's recent behavior is driving everyone nuts. And yeah, maybe Hollywood isn't safe too but it's clear Ibiza was way worse than LA. And him hanging out with Jared Leto doesn't make things any better. It's still the same, he's still with Mo, Michelle and those other people.

As for the DJ project yeah it's cool and all but considering there are partying that could lead to temptations. And I know he filmed Neighbors with a lot of partying scenes but he was taking rehab sessions that time.

Again I'm not being offensive. I understand what you meant because I can see we all care about Zac's health and well-being.
(no subject) - jeezbee on August 6th, 2014 01:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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laurenlipkinlip on August 6th, 2014 10:43 am (UTC)
well done.

ive had alot of mixed feelings since he was first randomly spotted with michelle in may and thought hmm random and idk why he's hanging out with her when shes not the best person ever then really was like hmm when he never stop hanging out with ryan and MO again, zac did look good in ibiza with it seems no outlets know how to say at all and just say whatever but i do have to say this, with the 500 pics of them from over the weekend to the grainy tmz someone phone video of zac ( mostly zac) and michelle kissing to the yacht it seems imo at least zac is the one who seems more interested and michelle is just there looking bored? idk if its because she's hung-over every day or what but zac looks more interested then she does? also ive seen alot over over-all comments from different sites how people think this is PR, fake , hiding things and etc, who knows but i honestly hope this summer thing or w/e is goiing on ends because Every since Gv decided to give his take on them and i personally think he was trolling on perez or internet comments on him ppl were thinking he was a sugar daddy to zac because in all honestly who was asking him for his opinion no one? so i hope GV is gone because he annnoys me also along with this whole trip that ended earlier for zac and im tr ANd MO annoys me and i wish he stop but then again we dont know these people personally at all.

then i saw tmz's story and thought HMMM it seems they are still trying to put this all on v's some reason and they need to stop yet it was nice of them to mention dylan.

i really dont know if zac is sober i hope he is but at this point i wish him the best and i dont know much about addiction and recovery and etc, but it seems like a daily struggle.

☮socrazywildcat on August 6th, 2014 11:07 am (UTC)
"i really dont know if zac is sober i hope he is but at this point i wish him the best"

I don't know if Zac is doing what he did before where he systematically cleaned up for his work days etc until he finally couldn't even do that anymore. I would have thought watching himself say those things on Running Wild would have been a subtle reminder of what got him here in the first place. Sometimes your best teacher is yourself, because only you know your strengths and your weaknesses.

Sobriety is hard because you have to change your opinions on everything you thought you knew about life from the moment you started using. It's easy to lose perspective and literally have no idea what's right and what's wrong anymore. It's like being born again in some respects.

But to be honest, it doesn't matter at this stage if he's physically sober because we all know he's not having sober thoughts or making sober decisions. As I've said, I hope he has the insight to realise this and do something about it. But it's not all on the addict. There are people in his life that should be able to see that he's slipping and pull him back up, every single time. If we can see what's going on through candids and gossip, his family and (true) friends should be aware. They should not fear offending him, because in confronting him they'll be keeping him alive.

❤️Zefron1087 on August 6th, 2014 11:50 am (UTC)
These past few weeks it felt like the whole fandom was in a new different type of situation to the point we don't even know how we feel about this situation. Everyone has their own different opinions but it's clear everyone is concerned what's happening to Zac. Whatever the media is reporting, it doesn't change the fact that Zac was in a dangerous place for his sobriety considering he was with Mo, Michelle, and those other "friends" of his.

Speaking of his "friends", idk what went into his mind why he went back with them but the only reason I can think of was because he felt lonely when he had to cut them out of his life. I understand him but he needs to choose better friends, not a bunch of people name dropping him and disrespecting his sobriety.

There was a point during this week where I cried seeing Zac acting like a completely different person. It felt like aski myself "is this really him? Was I roooting for the other Zac?"

He looks so happy but he doesn't know a lot of his fans and especially his family are hurt by the past week. It hurts really bad to see Zac acting like a different person :(

Cady you're an amazing fan. And I agree with everything you said.

Edited at 2014-08-06 11:53 am (UTC)
❤️Zefron1087 on August 6th, 2014 11:58 am (UTC)
I also forgot to mention that Zac's addiction is of course not an easy thing to battle. Idk how addiction actually works since I never experienced it nor someone I know but I noticed people start with addiction because they're either lonely, sad or big problems. I have sympathy for Zac tbh. But some of his actions aren't still excusable.

I'm still waiting for the day Zac will finally see the light of day....but it will take a lot of obstacles for him and for the fandom
Bee: Zac – CStC - ani - crying 1jeezbee on August 6th, 2014 12:18 pm (UTC)
Ngl, this trip was pretty disappointing. With his comments in ‘Running Wild’ still fresh in mind, it makes it all look like lip-service. He has to know that this trip or some of his other behavior is not “right” for him but for whatever reason he still went.

And yet they definitely put their needs and wants above his, otherwise they'd do more to enable healthy behavior in him.
This. If they were good friends they wouldn’t have invited him to join them in Ibiza but told him to stay away.

I hope at some point he realizes that he needs to put his own needs, esp his sobriety above them and the party lifestyle if he wants to have a career and a happy life. I’m afraid he hasn’t fully accepted yet that this lifestyle (friends included) has to be a thing of the past if he wants to succeed longterm, no matter how hard it is shortterm to find new friends, fulfilment etc. Perhaps getting back to work helps a bit with that.

If anyone wants a tip from me how to deal with Zac doing questionable things while you sit there and can’t do anything, here are 2 things I would recommend:

1) Don’t react right away when you see something you don’t like. Don’t tweet or post your immediate reaction. As Cady pointed out, anger achieves nothing and your instant reaction will be likely over the top. If you want to say something, just wait a bit, then think about it again and post after a while. You’re just going to get worked up over it even more when you react immediately.
2) It goes along with #1… don’t torture yourself with seeking out every bit of information you can find. Do yourself a favor and keep a bit a distance during those times (like his trip). Eg. I usually search in twitter for career-related stuff but ever since he left from LA, I stayed completely out of twitter search because I really don’t need to see all his activities 24/7. Of course I still see some stuff because I’m online and look at news etc but believe me it’s much easier to digest if you don’t read or see it over and over again.
laurenlipkinlip on August 6th, 2014 12:29 pm (UTC)
Since you seem to know how to answer things, is zac in denial ? Did zac really think going to Ibiza was a greet idea? Does he not think hanging out with mo and others are good for him and not think they use him for attention? At times I think and wonder if zac is aware of these ppl and think are they good ppl at all? Ie mo,Ryan and michelle and others ,
Aliciapop86 on August 6th, 2014 12:19 pm (UTC)
I am very conflicted over this but I do think he has given up on staying sober for the time being. I think he was tired of constant struggle and started to question whether abstinence was right for him. Zac can either come out of this phase with a new perspective and recommit himself to his sobriety or he can stop trying to sober.
Miranda gives everyone a chancemirandagirll on August 6th, 2014 01:32 pm (UTC)
fyi, this is late bc I'm currently on vacation at the moment, so this will probably be shorter than intended. In all honesty after the mental health nursing experience I've had, looking at psychology case studies, and looking back through Zac's life from when he was 18 to present, I honest to god believe there's deeper issues at play here. See borderline personality disorder.

Addiction is already a bitch, but when you add borderline personality disorder is makes it even more tough ie the situation Zac is currently in. Cory's situation is certainly in the back of my mind when it comes to Zac, but Zac has more support in his immediate circle than Cory did ie his family. In regards to the haters situation, they're more fucked up than Zac is for actually wanting him dead. That's honestly the most fucked up thing anyone can do tbh. Then again they're just randoms behind a screen so they only have as much power as stans/ppl give them. ngl, I side eye stans when I see them tweet the haters or tweet things they say when just ignoring them would at least help. One reason I've backed off twitter for a while.

To cut this short, I believe what he was saying on Running Wild as genuine and true, but there's deeper issues at play here which is causing the erroneous behavior.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-almost-effect/201405/men-borderline-personality-disorder

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001931/#adam_000935.disease.causes



Edited at 2014-08-06 01:36 pm (UTC)
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on August 6th, 2014 02:32 pm (UTC)
from everything i know of him, i do not think he has borderline personality disorder. like srsly, very little about that disorder sounds like him. i do think he struggles with anxiety and depression, all of which is mostly brought on by his situation. this is no amanda bynes thing. and it is no lindsay lohan terrible parents thing. it's just him being immensely famous, grotesquely judged and struggling with a position that was both power and pawn, at an incredibly vulnerable time in life.
(no subject) - musewriter on August 6th, 2014 02:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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laurenlipkinlip on August 6th, 2014 05:49 pm (UTC)
Judging From mos lastest instagram it seemd zac is prolly gonna be back to Italy again , doesn't he have to get ready for his new movie?he was just with mo and all of them? It's like he rather spend his time with these ppl then work?
Melanie JMelmos_World on August 8th, 2014 05:35 pm (UTC)
So he can't hang out with friends? Ok. That makes total sense. Guess I'm gonna drop all my friendships for a job and school.
ze ♡msalyssaefron on August 6th, 2014 08:45 pm (UTC)
I don't normally comment on here but I just really need to vent about how I feel. First off, Cady, I 100% agree with everything you said. I'm worried about Zac, even more than I was before. For me, I felt a lot of denial about the whole situation. At first, when I saw all these posts of Mo saying how he can't wait to hang with Zac and everyone, I kind of just pushed it aside because I thought to myself that Zac won't go back to that. Then Ibiza comes around and I see all these photos of Zac hanging with this group. Quite honestly, I was really angry and didn't know what to think. But again, I pushed it aside because while I felt some frustration towards Zac going back to the people that live a completely opposite lifestyle then what he was trying to live, I knew I couldn't change it. Instead, I told myself that he's old enough to know the consequences of right and wrong and that it's just a small obstacle he'll get through. Unfortunately, these past few weeks finally made me realize how real this situation is.

I felt overconfident about his sobriety for the longest time without really understanding how tough it is for him. Hence, these recent turn of events made me more aware. I don't quite understand why Zac chooses these friends, when so many of them seem to not care about his recovery. Even more so, I don't understand why he goes back to these old habits. I felt let down and disappointed, even though it sounds selfish of me to feel that way. However, I understand that it's not easy for him at all. He was doing really well and I could see he was trying.

Like many of you, I'm also afraid he's given up and that worries me for the future. Another part of me is optimistic that perhaps things aren't as bad as they seem, since we only see one side of what's going on. But I feel like that optimism can only go so far. I feel he's struggling to find a balance between his work and social life, and is coming up short. I completely agree that if he had a social hobby to keep him occupied, one that steers clear of those negative environments and influences, it would be a bit easier for him to not feel tempted to fall back to his old habits. I also don't know where he's at in his recovery but I'm really hoping for the best. The most important thing is that he puts himself first. His health should be his #1 priority and I'm hoping he can see that, even if things may be tough. I'm glad he has friends but I'm concerned about his choice of friends. He deserves to be around people who understand and respect him and I also hope he realizes that soon too. I always have to remind myself that I'm just a fan and that he's the only one in control of his life. Addiction is super tough and a long battle. I get it. I wish him all the best.

I'm looking forward to seeing him go back to work as well, it's been a long time and I feel like he may be in a better mindset after over a year of not filming. Then again, there are always setbacks with his work so I'm just trying to be aware of that too. Hopefully things will improve here soon because I've had so many thoughts in the back of my mind. I still don't know how to process how I feel about all of this but I'm hoping for the best. I know addiction is something that will follow Zac everywhere but at this point I'm trying my best to understand without irritational judgement. Thank you for everything you said and allowing us to talk about this.
Melanie JMelmos_World on August 6th, 2014 11:09 pm (UTC)
How do you think he's in the darkest moments? From seeing him happily hanging out with friends? Um okay. Uh-oh, someone I know likes to go sky diving and bungee jumping. So he MUST be on coke. What the fuck guys? I love this site for updates and everything but I'm sick of seeing all this stuff about how he's relapsed. What makes you say that exactly? Because of the Bear Grylls thing? That makes a TON of sense. You guys shouldn't even consider yourselves fans anymore and I hate saying that but seriously. And btw EVERYONE IS GONNA DIE! He's happy and healthy. It's been said EVERYWHERE that he's been really good about his sobriety. He doesn't even drink anymore. What did he drink on the Graham Norton show when everyone was drinkin alcohol? COFFEE!! I will keep checking this site for updates (obviously not for pics from his trip because him being happy with friends and his girlfriend apparently don't appeal to you guys) but I don't support ANYTHING you guys say about him at all. And also, just because you guys went through addictions or your family members did ALL ADDICTIONS ARE DIFFERENT!! Just in case you weren't aware!!!
laurenlipkinlip on August 6th, 2014 11:33 pm (UTC)
theres a couple things. he's hanging out with ifffy people he should't, he went to ibiza witch is known for partying. he's hanging out with someone who is a huge partier and isn't prolly gonna clean up there act. there is also the iffy skid row area thing.
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Melanie JMelmos_World on August 7th, 2014 02:16 am (UTC)
“I just really never again want to take anything from the outside in to feel … comfortable in my present skin, and that takes a lot of work,” he said. “It’s just meditation and stopping and slowing down your brain.”

He seems pretty serious about sobriety to me. He said this while on the Bear Grylls show. Like he said it takes a lot of work but he's serious about it.
laurenlipkinlip on August 7th, 2014 11:04 am (UTC)
If zac was serious he wouldt't be hanging out with people who are well known drug users like michelle and people who clearly party all the time? what he said on bear was about 3 months ago, Things change and people change?
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kleth on August 7th, 2014 06:58 pm (UTC)
Several posters have referred to what Zac said on Running Wild. It makes me very sad to say this, but you can't take what Zac says at any particular time at face value. Remember when he said he couldn't understand how anyone could have fun at a club - too noisy, crowded, full of drunks? Well, later he found a way. There are additional examples, Now, when he says he doesn't want to take anything exterior to his body to make himself feel good inside, it sounds good - he probably believes it - but you have to remain skeptical.

As I think I posted earlier, rehab taught him the lines for his new role; it remains to be seen whether he can get into character and become the person speaking those lines.
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on August 7th, 2014 07:42 pm (UTC)
not to be pedantic but i hate that way of putting it... lines and character. i know it is probably just poetic license but it makes him sound so fake altogether, when he's not (despite what some haters think). like you said in your other comment, he has to be angry at himself. so it follows that he must have acknowledged how bad these choices are and that he should change, because otherwise there would be no anger and no guilt. so it isn't just a line or a character to him, it is a true struggle and i think you get that based on your other comment. idk, like i said maybe pedantic, lol.

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(no subject) - ehs_wildcats on August 7th, 2014 09:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lipkinlip on August 7th, 2014 10:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lipkinlip on August 7th, 2014 10:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pop86 on August 7th, 2014 11:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lipkinlip on August 8th, 2014 01:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bradleybobst31 on August 7th, 2014 11:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kleth on August 8th, 2014 06:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
❤️Zefron1087 on August 9th, 2014 02:34 pm (UTC)
I feel like this new project of Zac's isn't a good idea. The fact that it has partying and stuffs scares me.
❤️Zefron1087 on August 9th, 2014 02:42 pm (UTC)
I feel like I'm one of the few fans who thought the day Zac started hanging out with Rottman and Michelle around May, I knew there was gonna be trouble right around the corner.

Weather Michelle is his girlfriend or just a friend, we all know when she's around, there's drama. Especially if Mo is there with him. I didn't understand though why some fans were fine with him hanging out with these "friends" at first. I already hated the idea him hanging out with them.

Honestly I tried not to judge Mo and the Ninjas but as the situation got worse (to the point Zac doesn't seem to care about his sobriety anymore) I partly blame them for "introducing" him again to his past lifestyle. I get that it's his decision at the end of the day and no one can help him but himself but if they (Mo and the others) were true friends they wouldn't invite him to Ibiza and wouldn't name drop his name every single day.

I don't know why it's hard for Zac to see that these people aren't his true friends.


Edited at 2014-08-09 02:45 pm (UTC)
kleth on August 9th, 2014 06:42 pm (UTC)
"I don't know why it's hard for Zac to see that these people aren't his true friends."

Probably because they are encouraging/enabling him to do what he wants to do anyway.

"I know what I should do, but I just want to have a good time." -- Zac Efron
(no subject) - Zefron1087 on August 9th, 2014 11:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kleth on August 11th, 2014 03:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
kleth on August 11th, 2014 03:26 pm (UTC)
Hey, someone post their Zip Code so we can break 100. Have we ever had a post with 100+ comments?

Oh, my Zip Code is 46075.
hunny miss (aka lets fead him to the gators)ehs_wildcats on August 11th, 2014 06:46 pm (UTC)
i think we have probably before, but idr right now.


eta: didn't really look thoroughly but i think the SNL live viewing post (april 2009) probably has most comments (244). generally there were at lot more comments in 2009-2010.

Edited at 2014-08-11 07:01 pm (UTC)